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December 10, 2006

Comments

Richard Carpenter

I am ashamed to say it, but I never thought of it like that. I guess I have been duped by secular liturgy more than I thought. thanks Brian for giving me some awakening.

Barry

Brian,Your jumbotron suggestion reminded me of a presentation put together by a 15-year-old anti-war activist with a Mac and a concsience. Honestly, I can't watch this the whole way through because, as a dad, it breaks my heart. But it's powerful: http://www.peacetakescourage.com/wwjd.html

Hale

I understand your feeling about this, i really do. Emotionally i can totally connect with you. But intuitively i can't. I don't want to ever forget that it is due much in part to jets like these that we are able to debate and question these ideas in these forums.

Joe

Adrenaline baby... What a crazy world we live in when our bodies are telling us one thing, and our intellect says something completely different. Feed that adrenaline addiction, if you don't care about what you really think of something. Just look at the Jerry Springer Show as one example, or Oprah, or Televangelists... you get my point.. ***Boom*** ***Boom*** *** BOOOM *** **rat* *a* TAT* *BOOM* CHARGE!!!!! ... to the death!...

Brian Rhea

I hear you, Hale. But, even if jets and war have guaranteed the freedoms that we currently enjoy, they cannot guarantee our security in the future. The only thing that arms manufacturing guarantees is that more wars will be waged.And, even if securing our freedom by having the more leathal weapon is the acceptable cost of doing business in your (or any) book, I don't think it's the sort of thing we should pump our fists at. Humility and regret seem like more appropriate reactions.I highly, highly recommend the short essay "The Failure of War" for further reading on this topic (http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1207-01.htm). A taste:"...by now all of us must at least have suspected that our right to live, to be free, and to be at peace is not guaranteed by any act of violence. It can be guaranteed only by our willingness that all other persons should live, be free, and be at peace—and by our willingness to use or give our own lives to make that possible. To be incapable of such willingness is merely to resign ourselves to the absurdity we are in; and yet, if you are like me, you are unsure to what extent you are capable of it."For surely we must feel ourselves swarmed about with more questions that are urgent, personal and intimidating. But perhaps also we feel ourselves beginning to be free, facing at last in our own selves the greatest challenge ever laid before us, the most comprehensive vision of human progress, the best advice, and the least obeyed:"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

hale

Humility and regret - I do agree that these are probably the more appropriate response... good stuff.On the other hand, I also believe that men being men are guarantees that more wars will be waged - whether by jets, or by chariots. Christ came to redeem us spiritually, not physically, He didn't come to raise an army against Rome and phsically freee the Jews. He freed us through atonement and grace. We can all agree that Christians would have been even more radically violent than they already were (crusades) had He come with a sword. That wasn't His plan. I am having a hard time with this because there is still the character of God - unchanging. In the OT, So many times the Lord had His hand directly upon and involved in brutally violent circumstances and wars. When are violent acts by man's hand against another appropriate? Are there still modern instances of war and bloodshed that are blessed by God? These are questions that I'm playing thumbwars with right now.

Brian Rhea

Thumbwars. Same here. Thanks for taking it on with us here...you've given me a lot to think about.

Nate

Thanks for the thoughts on this everyone. I've got some new links I'll have to check out this week.

Nate

I watch the video and feel immediately connected to the families suffering. I wish more of our brothers and sisters would feel the same...perhaps videos like this would do that. I think that in order for many to justify war, they must somehow dehumanize the victims and watching this makes it hard to do.

The Berry essay was something I'll have to spend more time on, but I do appreciate you pointing it out Brian.

Thanks.

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